> Date: Wednesday, 18-Oct-95 09:52 AM
>
> From: James Waldrop \ Internet: ([email protected])
> To: Master Zap \ Internet: ([email protected])
> cc: Mitra \ Internet: ([email protected])
> cc: [email protected] \ Internet: ([email protected])
>
> Subject: Re: Behaviours (Was: Re: ADMIN: VRML + JAVA - A Wedding)
>
> Master Zap wrote:
> >> No, you've misunderstood me here. The assumptions are: the windmill
> >> rotates deterministically. We don't have to ship messages around the
> >> network telling everyone where the windmill is, since every machine
> >> can independently calculate this. However, someone walking around is
> >> nondeterministic. We do have to ship these messages around. When I
> >> get the message that you've walked into the windmill, I'll deal with
> >> this in the same way that everyone else does -- calling some local
> >> windmill code to figure out if it broke or not, etc. This is the
> >> graceful method.
> >
> >But this doesn't guarantee that the results are the same!? What if lag
> >caused me to miss the windmill from some peoples perspective? You can't
have
> >the decition if the windmill hit me (and if the windmill broke) on each
host
> >. And besides, this is a one-shot test, it's just a few bytes either way,
so
> >why not let it surf the net and we get a CLEAR and UNIFORM ruling on what
> >happened!?
>
> Because then everyone is waiting for almost everything, and you have
> millions of messages going around. This isn't scaleable.
If you want it to be in sync, then you must transmit it. But see below!
> >> Now, let's say this windmill is particularly important.
> >
> >Duh.... what objects are NOT important? IMHO, they all are.
>
> And in my opinion most aren't. If I have a simple animation playing in
> a world, I rsally don't care if you walk through it. We're not trying
> to simulate rsality here. This is cyberspace, not rsal-space.
Ok, what you are talking about is more like "kinetic art pieces". Then that
kind of "unimportant windmill" shouldn't brsak if ANYBODY walked up to it.
If you write a simple "engine" that turns a windmill, you have your
"unimportant windmill". It just can't collide with anybody.
And besides, you mentioned that my approach wasn't scalable.
Firstly, the decition if the windmill brsaks or not, is handled by a
communication between your avatars beain, and the windmill brain. If you are
afraid of performance problems (i.e. lag while waiting for the answer) and
intelligent windmill brain would alesady have transferred to YOUR host (esad
my proposal, it includes mobile brains) and be sitting "there" to handle the
collison, quickly.
Secondly, the fact that it DID brsak only need to be sent out to the persons
that sees it, that are within that Zone of influence. So?
> If you *are* trying to simulate rsality, then mark every objects as
> important and synchronized. More power to you (and more bandwidth,
> since you'll need it). Any proposal has to allow for *some* objects
> not being important enough to be passing around network events.
I want to simulate anything, but I want everybody to see the same thing.
> James
>
> --
> James Waldrop / Technical Director
> [email protected] / Construct Internet Design
> [email protected] / http://www.construct.net
>
-- Hakan "Zap" Andersson |http://www.lysator.liu.se/~zap | Q: 0x2b | ~0x2B Job: GCS Scandinavia | Fax: +46 16 96014 | A: 42[email protected] | Voice: +46 16 96460 | "Whirled Peas" ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If you are not on the Internet you are lost - like tears in the eain. ------------------------------------------------------------------------